Repair of naughty hammer piano (Soviet hammer piano)
maxim_tuner demonstrates how in some cases, you can manually correct
work of a hammer. The piano "Elegy" hammer "sol1" octave
had incomplete return after kick. The fact that the hammer was pressed on the
axle without the necessary clearance happened. And, like the stiffness did not
give the full trajectory of the hammer. maxim_tuner dismantles the hammer out
of his seat (twist with a screwdriver) and his a small rocking from side to side
provides the necessary gap between the axle and the hole hammer. For more
convincing performance with a hammer outside the fork causes a drop of machine
oil. Then screwed into the hammer is already renovated and shows a complete his
work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RHaeIl48
Originally Posted By: rysowers That is why I like the water and alcohol treatment.
The Piano "Ukraine" for a long time, more than 2 years was situated in shed. The hammers were found in terrible condition. They refused to work.It's are a springtime has grown dump, but summer newly cohered with percussion cup. Has Used the " rysowers method " on one drop of the alcohol on dowel with both sides and the pin (axle) This helped! Full-fledged work 10 days. Had a no possibility to remove video (they live in distant village).
Can You it is difficult to believe, but former piano in usages in Kazakhstan if its else possible tuning cost less 100$. So client can not itself to allow to pay more 10-15$ for tuning and repair. It Happens to to realize repair by "barbarous way" that children could study with music
Уважаемый pianosxxi, спасибо за видео и Ваши комментарии.Беру свои слова обратно, по поводу моего некорректного высказывания, что Вы "влезли со своей рекламой в тему".Но стоит заметить, что я не хотел бы навязывать участникам форума мой способ "лечения молоточка". Как Вы правильно оценили, подобное возможно, лишь в экстренных случаях, с безболезненным достижением цели. Весьма рад, что подобные исследования по работе втулочных соединений ведутся столь правильно с применением научно-исследовательских подходов. Если не затруднит сделайте перевод для всех участников. С уважением и лучшими пожеланиями в Вашей научной работе, Максим.
translation Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Dear pianosxxi, thanks for the video and your commentary. I take back the words, about my incorrect statement that you "got into your own advertising rather than the topic on the subject." But it's worth noting that I would not want to impose my way to the forum participants' treatment of the hammer " . As you rightly appreciated, this is possible only in exceptional cases, with a painless achievement goals. I am very glad that such research work carried out so correctly using scientific approaches. If you can please translate this for all participants. Regards and best wishes in your research work, Max.
Maximillian,
I appreciate your positive feedback and most importantly we found a common understanding about how we approach our work. One thing I'd like to mention is that the piano mechanism (design) may look simple but in reality got hundreds and thousands of variables that we cannot control. That's why after 2 1/2 months, I stopped my research on bushing wear and tear test. I realized whatever results I get, they can be interpreted in many different ways. From my point of view its a total waste of my time. So I moved on to a different project.
Wishing you all the best and many successful repairs,
Protek is a fluorinated, teflon-like polymer, dissolved in fluorinated solvent. Unlike McLube, it's not a suspension, but a true solution.
Once the solvent evaporates, what's left behind is the fluorinated polymer similar to teflon. So, it's in fact a solid lubricant, but applied by means of a solution.
As far as oils go, to my knowledge as a chemist, when exposed to air, all oils, especially mineral oils, will become tacky/sticky with time. The molecules are oxidized, sometimes also polymerized, and form a resin
Originally Posted By: rysowers Personally I say no. There is enough anecdotal evidence of problems arising that it should be avoided. But there is a significant difference between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence. In the anecdotal cases we don't know what kind of oil and how it was applied. And obviously not everyone agrees including more than one high-end piano manufacturer.
From "The Grand Keyboard and Action: Function and Regulation" by Schimmel Pianos, page 15:
and from Bosendorfer Service Guide(I'm not sure what year - mine is a xerox copy) page 27: Quote: Problem 48. Sticking keys - centerpins too tight. Solution: use smaller pins, oil [it doesn't say what kind of oil]
From Kimball "Grand and Vertical Troubleshooting" from the early 1990's Quote: "To lubricate an action center, treat it with a solution of 2 parts light mineral oil and 8 parts naphtha. Other products such as silicon or Ballistol may also be used if the directions for the products are followed explicitly."
My point is certainly not to promote oiling the flanges. It is simply to point out that manufactures have mentioned it in their service manuals.
Lastly, Protek is used by a vast number of technicians, including high-level concert techs, yet we really don't know the long term effects of using this product either. It seems benign, but in 20 years if it causes some unknown problems, the technicians of the future may shake their heads at us pathetic hacks of the early 21st century.
Fair enough. I do remember books I read early on that referenced the mineral oil/naptha mixture. In that case though, mineral oil is very light to begin with, and then diluted 8 to 1. Quite different than straight oil.
As for Protek....my understanding is that it's not oil and doesn't contain anyway. I always assumed it was a kind of teflon suspension? _________________________ Loren DiGiorgi, piano technician, pianist, performer & composer MPT (Master Piano Technicians of America) Certified Dampp-Chaser™ installer
Originally Posted By: pianosxxi Therefore, this emergency repair may be done with a minimal damage. The most important of all, is that the goal will be achieved.
Уважаемый pianosxxi, спасибо за видео и Ваши комментарии.Беру свои слова обратно, по поводу моего некорректного высказывания, что Вы "влезли со своей рекламой в тему".Но стоит заметить, что я не хотел бы навязывать участникам форума мой способ "лечения молоточка". Как Вы правильно оценили, подобное возможно, лишь в экстренных случаях, с безболезненным достижением цели. Весьма рад, что подобные исследования по работе втулочных соединений ведутся столь правильно с применением научно-исследовательских подходов. Если не затруднит сделайте перевод для всех участников. С уважением и лучшими пожеланиями в Вашей научной работе, Максим.
Four years ago, I carried out a test for different action parts (Tokiwa, Steinway, Hamburg Steinway, Renner USA) targeting several points of contact and motion from the perspective of wear and tear. Each brand was tested for 5 million operations, the last test was done at 13 million non-stop beats (key strokes), that took me month and a half. From performing this test, I have gained valuable data about each manufacturer and my regulation technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrIYNT2Skw0&feature=player_embedded
Many variables involved during testing process which cannot be controlled. This is why I never publish/expose the test data received that may damage manufacturer without any scientific proof.
A combination of hammerhead, shank, butt, flange, center pin and bushing are very complex mechanical system that operates in different modes: dampening, friction, flexibility, firmness, etc. It can be warn out very fast as well as last for a long time. Lubricating bushings in a flange can be as dangerous as having a pin replaced. The final result crucially depends upon the skill of the technician.
I have to admit that after viewing Maximillian’s video and seeing how easy he takes the hammerhead from the action and puts it back, he does it in a very skilled way. Therefore, this emergency repair may be done with a minimal damage. The most important of all, is that the goal will be achieved. There is no more damage to what Max is offering in his video, compared to what is done by using pin tightener, shank sleeves, pin sleeves, Protek liquid that gives only temporary results. In addition, bunch of mediocre techniques of gluing ivories with instant glue, or glue damper wire to the flange, or using synthetic glue to adhere felt to the damper.
In the Piano Technicians Magazine, there was an article about how to make repairs to the spinet pianos,called “Fast Fixed”. Maximillian can certainly contribute to this topic.
Personally I say no. There is enough anecdotal evidence of problems arising that it should be avoided. But there is a significant difference between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence. In the anecdotal cases we don't know what kind of oil and how it was applied. And obviously not everyone agrees including more than one high-end piano manufacturer.
and from Bosendorfer Service Guide(I'm not sure what year - mine is a xerox copy) page 27: Quote: Problem 48. Sticking keys - centerpins too tight. Solution: use smaller pins, oil [it doesn't say what kind of oil]
From Kimball "Grand and Vertical Troubleshooting" from the early 1990's Quote: "To lubricate an action center, treat it with a solution of 2 parts light mineral oil and 8 parts naphtha. Other products such as silicon or Ballistol may also be used if the directions for the products are followed explicitly."
My point is certainly not to promote oiling the flanges. It is simply to point out that manufactures have mentioned it in their service manuals.
Lastly, Protek is used by a vast number of technicians, including high-level concert techs, yet we really don't know the long term effects of using this product either. It seems benign, but in 20 years if it causes some unknown problems, the technicians of the future may shake their heads at us pathetic hacks of the early 21st century.
maxim_tuner demonstrates how in some cases, you can manually correct
work of a hammer. The piano "Elegy" hammer "sol1" octave
had incomplete return after kick. The fact that the hammer was pressed on the
axle without the necessary clearance happened. And, like the stiffness did not
give the full trajectory of the hammer. maxim_tuner dismantles the hammer out
of his seat (twist with a screwdriver) and his a small rocking from side to side
provides the necessary gap between the axle and the hole hammer. For more
convincing performance with a hammer outside the fork causes a drop of machine
oil. Then screwed into the hammer is already renovated and shows a complete his
work.
